I feel like there is a huge difference between a shared kitchen and a shared bathroom. I'm fine with the former, and I would personally take that if the price was right.
It doesn’t need to be. I had shared bathrooms in college dorms and in a European facility for unmarried adult asylum seekers and in various hostels and they were absolutely fit for purpose.
I’m interested to see what this does to rents overall. I assume these will not be as affordable as everyone would like/assume, at least not in the next few years, and will drive up rents in larger spaces.
But I’m glad we’re trying SOMETHING in order to combat the problems with affordability; let’s just hope we don’t even up reviving how the other half lives.
Why would they drive up the rents in larger spaces? At least part of the demand in larger spaces is from roommates who would prefer to live alone, some of them might decamp for options like these, or studios and one bedroom apartments, etc., if they are available.
As with all types of housing, there is no one type of housing that solves the problem. Whether we live under capitalism or socialism, the only way we solve housing is when everyone who wants to live in New York, can, everyone who wants to live in Kansas, can, everyone who wants to live in Fort Myers, can.
With markets, a shortage results in high prices and rates. Without markets a shortage results in long waitlists. There’s no way out, without quantity.
If we want people to live in large indoor spaces, and not SROs, we can’t get there in 99% of our land use regime is focussed on limiting the total amount of floor space that is allowed to exist within a given area. Legalizing SROs is insufficient, but necessary, just like legalizing larger apartment buildings in more places, abolishing single-family zoning, etc.
Because the law of unintended consequences is always at play in the public sector. In this case, the threat of too much regulation will kneecap the governments ability to eliminate the cost structures that will end up happening because of the drive for increased revenue per sqft.
The core reason SROs threaten larger spaces is that landlords can often extract more total rent from a single apartment by chopping it into pieces than by renting it as a whole.
Hypothetically: A landlord rents a 1,000 sq. ft. 3-bedroom apartment to a family for $4,500/month.
In order to extract more value, the landlord converts that same space into 4 separate SRO rooms with a shared kitchen. Even if they charge a "cheaper" rent of $1,500/room, the total rent roll becomes $6,000/month.
The Result: the SRO format is more profitable ($6,000 vs. $4,500). If landlords can legally choose between the two, they will naturally favor creating SROs over family-sized units.
Then there’s the potential for cannibalization of supply:
If SROs become the most profitable way to use residential space, the market may see a "cannibalization" of family housing.
Landlords of market-rate buildings may subdivide existing large apartments into SROs to capture the higher yield.
Seeing this, developers then planning new buildings will design them with fewer large family units and more micro-units/SROs to maximize revenue.
This reduces the supply of 2- and 3-bedroom apartments. If the supply of family units drops while the number of families needing them stays the same, the price for the remaining large units goes up.
This will then potentially lead to increased land value as real estate prices are determined by the potential revenue a property can generate.
If a plot of land can now legally host a high-yield SRO building (generating $100/sq. ft. in revenue), the value of that land rises.
A developer who wants to build a standard family apartment building (generating only $60/sq. ft.) can no longer afford to buy that land because they will be outbid by the SRO developer.
To compete, the family-building developer must raise their projected rents to justify the higher land price. This raises the "price floor" for everyone.
> The Result: the SRO format is more profitable ($6,000 vs. $4,500). If landlords can legally choose between the two, they will naturally favor creating SROs over family-sized units.
Yes, this is the whole point! And the reason it's more profitable is that there is pent-up demand for them. There aren't enough of them. We want them to be more profitable, so more are built/converted.
Here's the thing, though -- that's a temporary situation. As supply goes up, demand gets met. Once enough are built/converted, the price comes down, and an equilibrium is reached where a landlord will make the same profit whether it's a 3-bedroom or 4 SRO's. This means the market is now maximally efficient for both types of tenants.
In a free market, the most efficient balance of apartment types will naturally come into being. By prohibiting smaller units, we prevent that balance and discriminate against people who can't afford a full-size studio with bathroom.
So it's not cannibalization of family housing. It's just reducing the proportion of lots of other types of apartments a little bit -- including studios and one-bedrooms. Because this is desirable.
Except the exact opposite thing is happening in the regular housing market. Small houses (e.g., townhomes) were intended to maximize land and reduce cost, except they’re now not even affordable.
It's the same problem -- you need more. Zoning regulations continue to prevent enough new construction, and the conversion of large lots/units into smaller ones.
I honestly don't know what you're proposing instead. But for some reason you're pessimistic about what all traditional economists agree on what is the solution -- remove more zoning regulations that constrict what can be built.
It's literally just supply and demand. Prices come down when you increase supply to meet demand. Just because increasing supply a little bit doesn't work when demand is increasing even faster, doesn't mean the basic principle is falsified. It's just that you need to increase supply much, much more.
Challenge is that NYC regulates the operation of sros so much that you'd have to be insane to build them under the current rules.
Kind of a shame, as lots of people basically just want a room to sleep in and a place to sit
I feel like there is a huge difference between a shared kitchen and a shared bathroom. I'm fine with the former, and I would personally take that if the price was right.
But the latter is gross.
This type of housing is somewhat common in Japan. It's called a "share house"
It doesn’t need to be. I had shared bathrooms in college dorms and in a European facility for unmarried adult asylum seekers and in various hostels and they were absolutely fit for purpose.
I’m interested to see what this does to rents overall. I assume these will not be as affordable as everyone would like/assume, at least not in the next few years, and will drive up rents in larger spaces.
But I’m glad we’re trying SOMETHING in order to combat the problems with affordability; let’s just hope we don’t even up reviving how the other half lives.
Why would they drive up the rents in larger spaces? At least part of the demand in larger spaces is from roommates who would prefer to live alone, some of them might decamp for options like these, or studios and one bedroom apartments, etc., if they are available.
As with all types of housing, there is no one type of housing that solves the problem. Whether we live under capitalism or socialism, the only way we solve housing is when everyone who wants to live in New York, can, everyone who wants to live in Kansas, can, everyone who wants to live in Fort Myers, can.
With markets, a shortage results in high prices and rates. Without markets a shortage results in long waitlists. There’s no way out, without quantity.
If we want people to live in large indoor spaces, and not SROs, we can’t get there in 99% of our land use regime is focussed on limiting the total amount of floor space that is allowed to exist within a given area. Legalizing SROs is insufficient, but necessary, just like legalizing larger apartment buildings in more places, abolishing single-family zoning, etc.
Because the law of unintended consequences is always at play in the public sector. In this case, the threat of too much regulation will kneecap the governments ability to eliminate the cost structures that will end up happening because of the drive for increased revenue per sqft.
The core reason SROs threaten larger spaces is that landlords can often extract more total rent from a single apartment by chopping it into pieces than by renting it as a whole.
Hypothetically: A landlord rents a 1,000 sq. ft. 3-bedroom apartment to a family for $4,500/month.
In order to extract more value, the landlord converts that same space into 4 separate SRO rooms with a shared kitchen. Even if they charge a "cheaper" rent of $1,500/room, the total rent roll becomes $6,000/month.
The Result: the SRO format is more profitable ($6,000 vs. $4,500). If landlords can legally choose between the two, they will naturally favor creating SROs over family-sized units.
Then there’s the potential for cannibalization of supply:
If SROs become the most profitable way to use residential space, the market may see a "cannibalization" of family housing.
Landlords of market-rate buildings may subdivide existing large apartments into SROs to capture the higher yield.
Seeing this, developers then planning new buildings will design them with fewer large family units and more micro-units/SROs to maximize revenue.
This reduces the supply of 2- and 3-bedroom apartments. If the supply of family units drops while the number of families needing them stays the same, the price for the remaining large units goes up.
This will then potentially lead to increased land value as real estate prices are determined by the potential revenue a property can generate.
If a plot of land can now legally host a high-yield SRO building (generating $100/sq. ft. in revenue), the value of that land rises.
A developer who wants to build a standard family apartment building (generating only $60/sq. ft.) can no longer afford to buy that land because they will be outbid by the SRO developer.
To compete, the family-building developer must raise their projected rents to justify the higher land price. This raises the "price floor" for everyone.
> The Result: the SRO format is more profitable ($6,000 vs. $4,500). If landlords can legally choose between the two, they will naturally favor creating SROs over family-sized units.
Yes, this is the whole point! And the reason it's more profitable is that there is pent-up demand for them. There aren't enough of them. We want them to be more profitable, so more are built/converted.
Here's the thing, though -- that's a temporary situation. As supply goes up, demand gets met. Once enough are built/converted, the price comes down, and an equilibrium is reached where a landlord will make the same profit whether it's a 3-bedroom or 4 SRO's. This means the market is now maximally efficient for both types of tenants.
In a free market, the most efficient balance of apartment types will naturally come into being. By prohibiting smaller units, we prevent that balance and discriminate against people who can't afford a full-size studio with bathroom.
So it's not cannibalization of family housing. It's just reducing the proportion of lots of other types of apartments a little bit -- including studios and one-bedrooms. Because this is desirable.
Except the exact opposite thing is happening in the regular housing market. Small houses (e.g., townhomes) were intended to maximize land and reduce cost, except they’re now not even affordable.
This will happen with these too.
It's the same problem -- you need more. Zoning regulations continue to prevent enough new construction, and the conversion of large lots/units into smaller ones.
I honestly don't know what you're proposing instead. But for some reason you're pessimistic about what all traditional economists agree on what is the solution -- remove more zoning regulations that constrict what can be built.
It's literally just supply and demand. Prices come down when you increase supply to meet demand. Just because increasing supply a little bit doesn't work when demand is increasing even faster, doesn't mean the basic principle is falsified. It's just that you need to increase supply much, much more.
Well said. The only 2 ways out of a housing crisis are to:
- turn the place into a hellhole nobody wants to live it
- build more
There’s no other option.
They should build these like the capsule hotels in Tokyo.